In his piece “In Favor of Primordial Compassion”, Samuél writes: empathy is an innate human quality that has become confused and commodified in the current epoch. Do you agree that empathy is innate? If so, do you find it id more and more elusive as you attempt to define it? Moreover, how do apathy and empathy coexist in your life?
I agree with Samuél that “reducing it to an idea or definition demeans its inherent value, somehow, resulting in extremely subjective ideas about hierarchical forms of empathy that amount to virtue signaling, moralistic conviction, political posturing and self-righteous noise.” Do you? If so, how do we let empathy coexist with all other human states without reducing them down to definitions that strip them of their true value?
Good questions Murphy. I'll paraphrase some of what I wrote in response to Samuel's original article. Part of what is going on in our ultra-virtue-signaling culture is anything but empathy. It's a show to fool others and worse, ourselves, in how we are worthy of our fortunes. Like original sin. We have killed religion only to have it resurrect in this ugly form.
From a political perspective, I have come to actually have "empathy" for the extreme left for exactly the frustration you touch upon, because they at least have their motives in the right place (although their solutions are terribly destructive, leading to much evil). This in contrast with the mindless consuming types who shop to fill the void, and even worse the elite-virtue-signaling types who are often (have you noticed?) the most privileged among us!
So while how empathy is used needs the scolding that Samuel meted out, the original concept is both innate and essential to a meaningful life. And to answer your other question, indeed in my own life I've come to be apathetic in some of the culture wars because they seem so shrill, extremist and discourage dialog. It's a loss of empathy in a sense, directly because of the screaming voices telling me to have more. So maybe we should be talking less and feeling more... Hope this makes sense.
"indeed in my own life I've come to be apathetic in some of the culture wars because they seem so shrill, extremist and discourage dialog" -- this is something I struggle with in today's world. As we discussed elsewhere, there is a simplification that happens throughout contemporary conversation that discourages both dialogue and attempts to understand those with differing viewpoints. We oversimplify by assuming we know who people are and what they stand for with a single piece of evidence, and therefore we don't bother interacting with them. We use one behavior, statement, or assumed belief as a stand-in for everything else, and that only serves to further separate us from people with whom we undoubtedly have more in common than we believe.
And then there are the entire concepts that have been reduced to buzz words that don't mean what the people using them think they mean, but again they're used as a stand-in to (usually deliberately) discourage thoughtful conversation on the things that really matter.
Anyway, empathy. Curiosity, empathy, and looking for similarities instead of being repelled by a single difference (or *interpretation* of a difference!) is the only way we get out of this situation we're in. But I don't know how we (in the US) come together like that without a catastrophe to illuminate those shared values.
I've read many articles that talk about the innateness of empathy in kids. I'm not so sure, personally, that every kid has empathy ingrained. In the process of growing up, the child first has to understand that it has a separate identity; and that eventually, they discover that the world doesn't only revolve around them. I see plenty of cruelty in children, selfishness and bullying. I believe that empathy needs to be cultivated, rather than relied on as an innate quality. I tend to think of empathy in the same vein as politeness. It takes more energy, sometimes more time. With more politeness and empathy, we can make a better community. However, we shouldn't expect ourselves to be empathic and polite 100% of the time. In those "other human states" we must accommodate and embrace our imperfections and naughtier selves.
This reminds me of a conversation we had before about how I wish everyone could just be curious and understanding when out in the world. If I get cut off in traffic, or the woman behind me in the supermarket is especially bitchy, I'd like to think I'll be empathetic to what they might be going through that led to their careless or rude behavior. But then what about if I'm having a terrible day, too? Empathy is on them, and me, and us all. There's no empathy utopia, because we are all human and we will, at some point and some more frequently than others, behave as other than our ideal selves.
Where would we be if empathy wasn’t innate? Would we have no communities, or would they exist purely based on self-interest? Isn’t a parent caring for their child a form of empathy? A sibling caring for another?
When I try to define empathy I don’t find it elusive, I start to see it everywhere.
The way a parent dedicates her/himself to a child in the early years is a pure demonstration of empathy since the child has few ways of expressing her/his needs.
As regards the definition, there are some schools of thought that break down empathy into five different types. It can get a bit 'in the weeds'... I have certainly seen a lot more books cropping up on the topic as well as more discussion in business about the need for greater empathy. Yet, do people seem to perceive the world/their boss/company as being less empathic than it/they view themselves. One proxy for empathy is listening. And I profoundly wish for more of that in our society. For starters, it's easier to observe (versus the murkier measurement of empathy).
Good questions Murphy. I'll paraphrase some of what I wrote in response to Samuel's original article. Part of what is going on in our ultra-virtue-signaling culture is anything but empathy. It's a show to fool others and worse, ourselves, in how we are worthy of our fortunes. Like original sin. We have killed religion only to have it resurrect in this ugly form.
From a political perspective, I have come to actually have "empathy" for the extreme left for exactly the frustration you touch upon, because they at least have their motives in the right place (although their solutions are terribly destructive, leading to much evil). This in contrast with the mindless consuming types who shop to fill the void, and even worse the elite-virtue-signaling types who are often (have you noticed?) the most privileged among us!
So while how empathy is used needs the scolding that Samuel meted out, the original concept is both innate and essential to a meaningful life. And to answer your other question, indeed in my own life I've come to be apathetic in some of the culture wars because they seem so shrill, extremist and discourage dialog. It's a loss of empathy in a sense, directly because of the screaming voices telling me to have more. So maybe we should be talking less and feeling more... Hope this makes sense.
"indeed in my own life I've come to be apathetic in some of the culture wars because they seem so shrill, extremist and discourage dialog" -- this is something I struggle with in today's world. As we discussed elsewhere, there is a simplification that happens throughout contemporary conversation that discourages both dialogue and attempts to understand those with differing viewpoints. We oversimplify by assuming we know who people are and what they stand for with a single piece of evidence, and therefore we don't bother interacting with them. We use one behavior, statement, or assumed belief as a stand-in for everything else, and that only serves to further separate us from people with whom we undoubtedly have more in common than we believe.
And then there are the entire concepts that have been reduced to buzz words that don't mean what the people using them think they mean, but again they're used as a stand-in to (usually deliberately) discourage thoughtful conversation on the things that really matter.
Anyway, empathy. Curiosity, empathy, and looking for similarities instead of being repelled by a single difference (or *interpretation* of a difference!) is the only way we get out of this situation we're in. But I don't know how we (in the US) come together like that without a catastrophe to illuminate those shared values.
I've read many articles that talk about the innateness of empathy in kids. I'm not so sure, personally, that every kid has empathy ingrained. In the process of growing up, the child first has to understand that it has a separate identity; and that eventually, they discover that the world doesn't only revolve around them. I see plenty of cruelty in children, selfishness and bullying. I believe that empathy needs to be cultivated, rather than relied on as an innate quality. I tend to think of empathy in the same vein as politeness. It takes more energy, sometimes more time. With more politeness and empathy, we can make a better community. However, we shouldn't expect ourselves to be empathic and polite 100% of the time. In those "other human states" we must accommodate and embrace our imperfections and naughtier selves.
This reminds me of a conversation we had before about how I wish everyone could just be curious and understanding when out in the world. If I get cut off in traffic, or the woman behind me in the supermarket is especially bitchy, I'd like to think I'll be empathetic to what they might be going through that led to their careless or rude behavior. But then what about if I'm having a terrible day, too? Empathy is on them, and me, and us all. There's no empathy utopia, because we are all human and we will, at some point and some more frequently than others, behave as other than our ideal selves.
Where would we be if empathy wasn’t innate? Would we have no communities, or would they exist purely based on self-interest? Isn’t a parent caring for their child a form of empathy? A sibling caring for another?
When I try to define empathy I don’t find it elusive, I start to see it everywhere.
The way a parent dedicates her/himself to a child in the early years is a pure demonstration of empathy since the child has few ways of expressing her/his needs.
As regards the definition, there are some schools of thought that break down empathy into five different types. It can get a bit 'in the weeds'... I have certainly seen a lot more books cropping up on the topic as well as more discussion in business about the need for greater empathy. Yet, do people seem to perceive the world/their boss/company as being less empathic than it/they view themselves. One proxy for empathy is listening. And I profoundly wish for more of that in our society. For starters, it's easier to observe (versus the murkier measurement of empathy).